The Penguin

Today on Art of the Cut, we’re in conversation with the Emmy-nominated editors of The Penguin. They are (in order of their nominated episodes) Henk van Eeghen, ACE, Meg Reticker, and Andy Keir.

Henk has been on Art of the Cut before for The Morning Show. Henk has won two Emmys and an ACE Eddie. His other past work includes the TV series Lost, Watchmen, and Fargo.

Meg has been nominated for five Emmy Awards and won an ACE Eddie - and was nominated for another, mostly for her work on 30 Rock. Her other work includes Tulsa King, Perry Mason, and American Rust.

Andy was nominated for ACE Eddies for two shows in 2009, winning for True Blood. His other work includes the TV series, Your Friends & Neighbors and Warrior, and the feature, Roger Dodger.

Congratulations to all of you on your Emmy nominations. Did you edit this in New York or in Los Angeles?

KEIR: [Meg Reticker] and I were in New York, and [Henk Van Eeghen] was in Los Angeles. That worked well for Lauren LeFranc, the showrunner, because she was in production in New York.

So she worked with Megan and me during production. Then, during post, she was able to go home and work together with Henk, who did the finale as well. So that worked for the schedule.

Talk to me a little bit about the collaboration that you have to do between a director and the showrunner. How does that work specifically on this show between Lauren and the director?

RETICKER: [Craig Zobel] did the first three. Then Helen Shaver did four and five. Then Kevin Bray did six and seven. Then Jen Guttinger did eight.

How was it to work in that situation where you’re working with a director who has a vision for what they’re doing, then eventually hands that off completely to the show runner? Or is the director somewhat involved all the way through?

VAN EEGHEN: We’re all used to directors having only a limited amount of time for pilots. There’re usually one or two weeks for a director, then it gets handed over to the showrunner, who has a little bit more time, then all the producers.

Then it goes to the studio and the network. On the later episodes, the director usually gets four days to go through the material, then they hand it over to the showrunner.

The showrunner tends to have a more general idea of what the show should be. They also have a show arc in mind that the episode has to fit.

RETICKER: [Director] Craig Zobel was involved in episodes one, two, and three in setting up this world. Lauren LeFranc was so definitive with her vision and shaping it. She was involved in every aspect of it. Craig helped setting up this world and helped setting up the show.

There’s always one director that just won’t go away, and - in a good way – that was Helen Shaver, who did episodes four and five and just had a strong vision as far as her shows.

She was constantly calling us asking where we were at. The show was prolonged because of the strike. I feel like so much of the show was defined by the strikes. I don’t know if you guys would agree with that, in a good way.

KEIR: Absolutely.

RETICKER: It gave us time. I remember working with Helen for so long on episode 104, “Cent’Anni.” There are so many ways this show was defined by the strike.

KEIR: For me, episode 103 was the strike-interrupted episode. There are a lot of moments within that episode for Victor in particular, but one of the major scenes in that episode that he has on the dance floor where he basically has a PTSD episode while he’s in the club on the dance floor. He becomes overwhelmed by the trauma of the flood, and losing his family.

That sequence was shot before the strike. We had a good two or three months during the strike to work on the entire cut, but most of the time was spent trying to figure out that sequence because it was not working and the location was tough.

They got rushed out. There were a lot of extras. They basically barely made their day. To be quite honest. I don’t think that the scene had been properly figured out at script level, so once the strike was over and the writers came back, that was what they targeted for my episode, 103.

They rewrote it. Craig came up with this great concept which didn’t exist before the strike: when the explosions happen and the flood happens, Victor falls on the roof and sees the vibrating gravel on the roof from the calamity that’s happening, then that is recreated on the dance floor with the vials of Bliss on the dance floor.

It’s an incredibly beautiful cinematic, expressive expression of Victor’s trauma. It didn’t exist until the strike that all came about from.

What Meg’s saying is especially true of our two episodes, three and four, because they were the ones that were almost done, so we were able to really dig into them and attack problems when we came back into production.

Editor Andy Keir

I’ve heard that from multiple people who’ve worked on shows where, for example: Tom Cruise breaks his ankle or Harrison Ford breaks his ankle or whatever, and they have time to reexamine the edit, or rethink the writing. They say how beneficial that is to have that extra time.

KEIR: Also we need to think about our movie stars and their bone density…

You explained that two of you were in New York, while one was in L.A. Did you get a chance to speak into each other’s episodes in any way?

RETICKER: Not really. I’ve worked with Andy quite a bit. We don’t talk that much. We look at each other’s episodes on the sly.

I like to think that Henk, Andy, and I were all hired because we all like actors. We spent our time on the show really carving out performances, and it’s not because the performances were bad.

They were amazing, but ultimately, Lauren was so specific that I felt like we were always going back in. I do remember looking at 101 - the pilot -which was obviously Henk’s episode. It was getting better and better and better, because it is kind of the roadmap.

It wasn’t always obvious with those performances: “Do you go with that take?” or “Do you go with that take?” We were constantly digging into every take, reworking it. What made this show so amazing is the performances and carving out those performances, and the great actors that are in the show.

VAN EEGHEN: Especially, Colin Farrell. In the pilot he had different performances. Craig Zobel wanted it funnier and lighter. Lauren wanted to be darker and more serious.

Ultimately, Matt Reeves came in and spent quite a bit of time with just the first couple of scenes with me to set the tone for Colin Farrell’s performance, which was kind of an in-between. He didn’t want it to be too light because he felt the character was gonna go very dark.

So, he wanted there to be those elements and we worked on trying to find that tone. Ultimately, I think he did a very good job.

Editor Henk van Eeghen, ACE

Tone was one of those things I really wanted to discuss because it was obvious the care that was taken in trying to get the right tone, whether that was through performance or music. Can you speak to scenes in your episodes where adjusting tone was a big creative choice?

KEIR: There’s a scene where Oz is in the bathroom with Victor. Oz’s exhilarated and excited that they’ve made the deal with the Triad.

Victor is trying to figure out a way to tell Oz that he’s leaving with Gabriela to go to California and he’s terrified because he thinks that Oz is not gonna let him leave and is gonna kill him rather than let him leave.

It becomes this very threatening scene tonally. It was never gonna be a funny scene. There’s very little humor in it, but there’s a question of how dark to go?

How dangerous to make it? Ultimately, Oz does let him leave, so if you go too far, then it’s a red herring. It becomes false, but there were so many ways that you could find tone in that scene.

The amazing thing about Colin Farrell: there aren’t a lot of actors that do this - the only other one that I really can think of that I remember is Christopher Walken - he can give you two completely different performances. Oz is a very mercurial character, so he can change on a dime all the time.

What Colin can give you is a low-key performance, an over-the-top performance, an angry performance, a funny performance. Within any of those takes, there are places where you can transition from one take to another.

Often, we try and do that. We sometimes will squint in our cut and think we’re getting away with it, then somebody says, “I can tell you changed takes there. He’s got spittle coming out of his mouth and now he’s talking very quietly.”

He always gives you places to moderate the tone and not throw any take away. If you want that, you got it. But otherwise, all the takes are usable in part because he finds these islands where he settles, takes a breath, then resets and stays true emotionally to the scene, but gives a different color. It’s astonishing to watch in dailies.

Editor Meg Reticker

RETICKER: One of the key elements from day one that Lauren pointed out and is that the DC world is a much more grounded world, and that was something where you’ve got this element of it being a grounded comic book world.

So there are places where it feels like the tone is very heightened, but you wanna ground it in this reality. I think there was a lot of trying to attempt to go into this internal space as well.

It’s also this mob story, so it’s trying to keep these actors in this moment. One scene that I really loved - and I would say that Cristin Milioti was just an amazing actress.

There’s this scene where she is addressing her family at the dinner towards the end of the episode in the yellow dress. It’s just an amazing scene. I’m going through all the takes. There’s humor, there’s anger, and there’s sadness, and she’s playing all these different ways.

I went through all the performances and decided that I could use all three emotions and tones in the scene.

She starts out in this funny way - she’s playing with her meatball, then she kind of takes it in and she does her speech for the family. It’s like this anger. She’s just so angry at them for everything that they’ve done to turn against her and send her to Arkham.

But at the end, it’s just the total hurt and pain of “how could you do this to me?” It allowed the scene to have all this movement. It was just so beautiful.

Helen Shaver directed Cristin Milioti in such a beautiful way. I think getting that tone and keeping it grounded in this reality and there’s also so much internal stuff going on in our show - all these close-ups.

We were always obsessed with perspective and Lauren spoke a lot to that: whose perspective are we in? When she’d come to your editing room she’d always be talking about what’s happening with the actor at that moment, or the character at that moment: “This is what’s going on.

Now they’re feeling this.” It was so enjoyable to listen to her talk about what was happening in the scene, so that helped us a lot with tone.

VAN EEGHEN: In the finale, Cristin has this long scene where she finally has Colin Farrell tied up. That scene had a whole range of funny takes and neutral takes and anger takes, and over-the-top anger takes, so we did many versions of that scene to get to where Lauren was happy. Cristin is a huge star in this series.

One of the things that struck me - when you’re talking about ways to create tone - is music. You use very little music in this series. Many, many scenes are played completely dry. Talk about the decision-making process of which scenes would have score and which scenes would be dry?

KEIR: When it comes to music, I’m a minimalist. I love that approach. The shows that I work on generally use more music than would be to my taste. I do think that when the script is working and the actors are working, the music is either extraneous or hopefully it never gets in the way, but it’s not necessary.

The approach Lauren took to music was in line with me, but that’s kinda luck. We don’t really get to decide these things.

They tell us where to put the music, generally. We come up with an idea and they say, “That’s too much.” “That’s not enough.” “We need something here.” I love the music that [composer] Mick Giacchino came up with. I think it works beautifully and it’s the right amount.

RETICKER: Cutting stuff dry is so awesome because if it works dry, it’s gonna work with music. And the source cues were really important to Lauren. Like the Bobby Darin song in Episode 4 during the FEMA heist – “Call Me Irresponsible” - which was really amazing.

I put this cue by Sarah Vaughn – “So Long My Love.” It worked beautifully and it was in my editor’s cut. Obviously we were working with a music supervisor who was giving us a lot of music. There was humor in a lot of it.

There was a lot of eighties stuff that just gives it a little lightness. We used a lot of Dolly Parton - at least my episode. You used Dolly Parton in your episode, too, right Henk?

VAN EEGHEN: Yes. I work in a similar manner as Meg. I cut everything dry. I start looking for music. We usually do add a little bit of score in our first cuts. The director usually likes to have a little score in there.

When Lauren comes in - or many other showrunners – the first thing they say is, “Turn off the music, please, so that we can start thinking about what the scenes are.” Lauren had a very good idea about the music and keeping it to a minimum. She was instrumental in that.

Meg mentioned that one of the inspirations for music was what a character would listen to. But that was also used as “What would you be shocked that they listened to?” That was used to great comic effect with the Dolly Parton song.

RETICKER: We tried to do a lot of that. Oz’s backstory is set up in 107, where he is a kid. It sets the times. I also had “Only You” by Yaz. And “It Takes Two” is one of my favorite songs. It’s really barely in it ‘cause it’s just a “car-by.” But it was a very popular song in 1988 and it’s one of my favorites.

VAN EEGHEN: For the ride where Oz takes Sophia to the place where he presumably is going to execute her, I came up with a little piece of classical in the car as if that’s something that she would regularly have asked for when he was still her driver. That had a very eerie quality to it.

KEIR: Source music was so important for the entire season of The Penguin that I really think we should give a shout out to Jen Malone, our music supervisor, who just did an incredible job. I watched the Bliss episode last night - just to refresh my memory.

That whole club sequence has to have six different club songs in there. Jen gave us that. There was a lot of going back and forth on what those should be, but they’re all great.

There’s one that we use sort of as “sc-ource” when Victor leaves the bathroom scene and drives to the bus station to be with Gabriela, and Oz is brooding in the club and we’re cutting back and forth.

It’s this incredible sequence. Both of the actors are amazing and the song it’s fantastic. It’s a current song, but it kind of has a Depeche mob vibe, which is in Oz’s ballpark, but obviously it’s playing in a club now. So I just wanted to shout out Jen.

Speaking of music, one of the nice touches was Oz listening to a movie musical on TV with Victor. I wanted to discuss cinematic grammar and things that the audience knows are used in cinema. There’s a lovely push on Oz as he’s listening to “Put the Blame on Mame,” and it lets you know that the song gave him an idea. It created an idea in his head. Can you talk to me about the use of cinematic grammar and when you choose to do that?

VAN EEGHEN: I love that movie. For a while, it wasn’t clear that he got the idea to start blaming other people from that movie.

That’s how we came to do this kind of slow move in on him, which was only partially done in the camera and partially done in post so that it had kind of a natural flow to it.

The fact that he’s sitting there at the kitchen table then hears the movie in the background and comes up with the idea that also didn’t exist.

That moment that was created from material that had a slightly different function in that scene. Then the rest of the scene was simplified so that just that concept came across, and a lot of extraneous activity and dialogue was taken out so that you just had that one thing.

Lauren was very, very good in cleaning up a scene so that it’s very focused on one concept. She’s very clear and concentrated about that. That’s how that scene came to be.

RETICKER: Episode 107, is called “Top Hat,” which is based on a Fred Astaire film. It’s Oz’s origin story. You see him as a kid. It was a pretty difficult scene to cut, actually.

He’s with his brothers and they’re underground in this old subway tunnel in New York where they used to play flashlight tag. He goes home and there’s a huge storm that takes place.

It was cutting between him -where he arrives home and he’s happy to have his mother to himself - while his brothers are stuck in his tunnel, which he does nothing about. Oz and his mom are watching Fred Astaire’s “Top Hat” and his brothers are drowning in a tunnel because of this rainstorm.

We’re going back and forth and you never see the brothers in the tunnel - which was very difficult to create - but you realize so much of who Oz is, is related to his mother and this nostalgia and the time they spent together watching these films together, like “Top Hat,” which he watched multiple times. It says a lot about who he is and his relationship with his mother.

KEIR: In episode 105, when Victor comes to check on Francis, the TV is on, the stove is on. She’s obviously having some sort of episode. It’s a little bit of a scary moment.

She ends up being okay, but as he walks into the living room. “Gloria” is on the television. I think that was just Lauren’s way of paying tribute to the tough-as-nails feminist that Francis was in spite of, and because of, the time and the world that she grew up in.

Since there were no limits really on the length of an episode, did you find you were tightening or deleting scenes just because of the macro pace of the episode? Or did you have to hit specific times?

KEIR: No specific times. The premiere was over 60 minutes. It’s about pace. Nothing was ever taken out for any other reason, except if it wasn’t working, if it didn’t serve the story.

And nothing was kept in for padding. That would never happen. There were no constraints like that. The scripts were tightly written.

What about sound design? Specifically, in Episode 2 - the Arkham dream sequence that starts off the episode. But really all of the episodes had great sound design. How much of that is placed in the original picture cut? And how much did new sound design change the pacing when it was placed in?

RETICKER: I think a lot of the background sounds in Arkham are really important. The sound mixer is Andy Kris - who I’ve worked with a lot in New York. We tried to put in as much sound as we could to create the world of Arkham.

It’s also kind of this horror element. It’s filled with all the sound of these women and these low tonal backgrounds to give it this feeling.

As we moved to Episode four, it’s also the sounds of New York and the fact that it’s at night, and this flood that has taken place. So we’re in this post-apocalyptic world.

KEIR: I had the flood - the calamity, the explosions from the Riddler - from the flashback in 103. That was just a huge job. Then that flashback on the dance floor was a real collage thing.

Andy Kris and the sound team did an amazing job in the finale, but that’s the kind of thing we have to at least lay down the groundwork - the skeleton of that - because we have to know that these cuts are working.

Especially for those kind of sequences that are driven by sound or action oriented. If you see them without the sound effects, it really is tough.

Like with the flood sequence I was working with previs. Without the sound, it was like you were just looking at a silent video game, so getting the feel of what these sequences were gonna look like, was definitely a lot of temp sound work, though it doesn’t hold a candle to what the sound professionals did in the final mix.

VAN EEGHEN: I’d also like to give a shout-out to Kevin Soares, my right hand man, who does a lot of this sound work.

AE Anne O’Brien with Post Production Assistant Kyle Best. Photo credit: Briana Samson

Is that your assistant editor?

VAN EEGHEN: Yes. My assistant editor, for many, many years. He will lay up six different pieces of music so that Lauren and I can quickly try out different pieces of music. A lot of sound work is done by the assistant editor. In my case, Kevin Soares.

KEIR: I would just like to give a shout out to my assistant editors, Jennifer Davidoff Cook and Anne O’Brien.

The job went on a long time, so I ended up having two different ones. They would probably be the first to tell you that I’m stingy about the sound work.

I don’t let them do as much as they would love to do because I’ve worked on a lot of action stuff and I literally wouldn’t let anyone look at it until I’ve done enough sound to make the scene work.

Meg, a shout out to your assistant?

RETICKER: Owen Hutchinson. Amazing! I think we both worked together on it. I feel like sound is a very exciting thing in editing right now.

I think it’s becoming more and more of a character within a lot of shows. I love it. I started out as an assistant sound editor when I came up in the industry, so I love sound. I also want to mention Rich Bologna, the supervising sound editor on the job, did an amazing job.

And the mixer, Andy Kris, were just amazing in terms of creating this world. So many of the “keys” in the show were so amazing and top-notch. Like Johnny Han who did the visual effects.

My episodes were not as visual effects heavy as Henk’s and Andy’s, but the amount of visual effects in creating this world was pretty intense.

Johnny Han, in the visual effects department was just top-notch. To see the finished product in the end was just so beautiful.

KEIR: It’s an overused word, but Johnny Han is a genius. His office was right next to mine, and I would often hear him talking to his team or talking on the phone. Just as a manager, the balls that he had to keep in the air, the team that he had to deal with, the vendors… He is the chillest, coolest, nicest guy in the world. I can’t say enough about Johnny Han.

VAN EEGHEN: The very beginning of the pilot - where there’s a camera down from the city past the train tracks into the underworld where Cobb lives - that was an idea that I don’t think any of us thought was possible, given the complexity of it.

We had given up on it for a while and Johnny came back with the first designs of it. I’m very much a fan of that opening move. Ultimately, he was able to pull it off and it really looks good.

Is there something that you do in your approach to select reels or something like that, that allows you to better collaborate with Lauren when it gets to that stage. How do you organize to best deal with revisions and notes?

RETICKER: ScriptSync is one, which a lot of writers and directors like because you can lasso the performance that you’re going for, then they can see all the different performances.

But when I cut comedy, I often use string outs because I like to carve out the performance and know what all the performances are. Then - instead of cutting by addition - I cut by subtraction, by taking things out.

But when you’re doing drama, I feel like doing line-by-line string outs is not great because it’s more than just that line. It’s more performance driven, which - in that case I think - doing selects is the way to go, in terms of feeling what the possible performance is. I use a combination of the three of those.

KEIR: No offense, Meg, but I find string outs enervating. I just lose all context. For me, all film is, is context. But I haven’t worked on the kind of brilliant shows like 30 Rock that Meg has done. I can see where literally the context is the setup and the punch line.

Then I can see how string outs could serve. But mostly I do work in this sort of comedy/drama world, and I don’t find string outs helpful. I don’t really do selects because context is the key.

I slap together a cutting pattern based on the coverages that we have, then once I have that, I go through - hopefully I’m using one of the best line readings in the take I used to put together for the cutting pattern. Then I start trying to see: “Is there a better read of this?

What do I remember from the dailies that was fun or that caught my eye?” I don’t take notes. I don’t do selects.

I try and do it all in my head and then - having gotten the heads up from Kevin and from Owen - that Lauren, with this vision that she had for the idea of what the tone must be - that she was gonna be very meticulous and she was gonna wanna hear every reading of every line.

For that reason, I had my AEs prepare string outs, which came in extremely handy. They were all used. There was no time wasted.

I generally don’t ask my AE to do that because I don’t look at them. I’ll do it for targeted scenes. For example, if a scene has a lot of dialogue, they’re gonna wanna hear all these takes, but on The Penguin, every scene was strung out because every syllable was important.

VAN EEGHEN: [Executive Producer] Matt [Reeves] - I would say - started the whole string out approach. He really likes string outs and he likes to find combinations of performances, then go back and try another combination of performances.

So, we’ll combine take two and seven, then we’ll do three with five, et cetera. He really likes to look for performances and is very, very meticulous about it. It’s fun to work with because how often do you get to experiment like that and take the time to hear these different versions?

It’s always surprising how little changes can actually create quite different versions.

Andy, many people like to work the way you mentioned. It’s actually the way I work. But some of the people that do use string outs have that same issue of: if you use a string out, you kind get kind of choppy editing from that. The solution most of them use is to find the shot with the string out, then Match Frame back out to the original clip so you’re actually editing from the entire take.

KEIR: For me, it’s literally looking at the string outs that I don’t like. It’s like that thing when you say a word over and over and it stops meaning anything. I find that watching a string out sequence… I can’t do it. It doesn’t help me at all. I just try and get there a different way.

And I have been using - as Meg mentioned – ScriptSync, because my current assistant editor, Pablo Momene, loves knowing the material that well, and going through it that way. That comes in handy for me when I’ve got everything put together.

Henk and Meg did all the heavy lifting of setting up the season. That’s really what’s happening in episodes one and two. We’re getting to know the city of Gotham, which of course we all know from other IP, but Lauren had a very specific vision.

I think a lot of it really came into view in 103, where we see the flashback to Victor and his family, and we see this kid who we kind of think of as this street kid who’s stealing hubcaps and getting into trouble, and now has been co-opted by Oz.

In this episode, he makes the play to become a father-figure to Victor, and that brings up Victor’s memories of his family and his dad who he truly loved.

He’s not just a street kid. He’s from a warm, loving family. So much of what’s been shown of Gotham in other material is all about sleazy, corrupt politicians, dirty bent cops, gangsters, street crime, drug dealers, and drug users.

I think it was really important for Lauren to depict Gotham from the ground up - that there are people with lives that go to work every day.

Victor is basically a dreamer. His parents brought him here when he was a kid. They’re immigrants. Victor’s story is an immigrant story. The humanity of that -it’s not completely neglected - but Lauren put it forward in a way that is very much from her heart.

VAN EEGHEN: I’m extremely grateful to Lauren. She’s a quiet, driven person and I really appreciate her work and her attitude.

The way that she ended this series was quite phenomenal. I’ve worked on a lot of finales and I would say this is probably the best written finale that I’ve worked on.

RETICKER: Every show you work on, you learn something about editing. One of the things that I really got into - because the scripts were so great - was this notion of perspective. Everything was cut through perspective. Lauren would repeat, “Can Oz see that? Can they experience that?

We can only experience what a character’s feeling.” Often we were either cutting from the perspective of Oz or Sophia. It just focused the show in a way that I carry on in my other shows, because I’m thinking, “What is that character thinking? What are they feeling?”

Sometimes there would be a handoff, whether it was from Oz to Sophia or Sophia to Oz or another character. Then it becomes their perspective.

That was something that I thought about a lot when working on the show: whose perspective is this and what are they feeling and what are their motivation? I really enjoyed working on it for that reason.

If Lauren says to you, “I really want this to be from Oz’s perspective,” it’s still the same script and the same footage. How do you make it from that person’s perspective as an editor.

RETICKER: I give my assistants - who are learning to cut - a scene and they will deliver it from no one’s perspective. It’ll be omniscient in a weird way. Then the scene becomes kind of about nothing in a way. It will just be, “Oh, those are nice cuts.”

But I think to some extent you may cut it in a way where you’re first cutting it, that you’ll read the script and you’ll say, “What is this scene about and who is it about?”

Then ultimately you’ll make a cut, then you’re always tweaking it to redefine the perspective. When Lauren came into the room, a lot of that was tweaking the perspective even more.

What is your advice when your assistant cuts a scene without a character perspective, how do you help them find the correct perspective? What are the actual specific changes that make it have a perspective?

RETICKER: Well, one is where we are in the scene. Who are we on? Whose eyes are we seeing this through? Often I’ll say, “Why did you cut there? Why not just stay with that character who it’s about?” You want to stay with that character whose perspective it is.

I think a lot of it is just cutting less and really through that character’s perspective by staying on that character often or seeing what that character is seeing.

KEIR: Sometimes there’s an important line - something that someone says that is crucial. Your first instinct might be, “We gotta be on that person for that line,” but the reaction of the person who the scene should be from their perspective is what you wanna see at that time.

A lot of people really wanna see the important lines, but a lot of times the emotion and the reaction of the person listening is more important. That determines the perspective right there.

VAN EEGHEN: Perspective for me is trying to figure out specifically what one of the people is feeling. If I can track what the one person is feeling throughout the whole scene, then the stuff around it becomes the action at certain moments. You just want to be on that close-up to see the reaction and the emotion.

Keir’s Penguin workstation before he arrived

Thank you all for taking time with me. Congratulations on the Emmy nominations.

KEIR: Thank you.

RETICKER: Thank you, Steve.

VAN EEGHEN: Thank you.